this is a story about how i beat a thief at his own game and made $2,100 USD in the process. if you’re reading this Howard, f*** you twice.
table of contents
- context and background
- finding out i got scammed
- luck is when preparation meets opportunity
- playing stupid
- data gathering
- filing a PayPal claim
- losing my PayPal claim
- becoming a ninja
- filing a PayPal claim, redux
- winning
- leveraging the wisdom of the crowd
- spiteful in my spare time
- getting scammed again
- winning twice
- who wants some?
- forgiveness
context and background
i’m a marketer with an online course. it sells for $2,000 which means “no stupid people allowed.”
i’ve been criticized for charging this much but it’s worth it and besides, i don’t tolerate incompetent students.
anyway, i launched the course 8 months ago and had zero problems.
enter February 2019.
finding out i got scammed
on February 2 a new student enrolled, name “John Shredder.” sounds like one of those Movie Names but whatever, $2,100 buys me a new pair of Vans.
a few hours later he sent me this email, a refund request:
kind of an odd compliment slash passive aggressive complaint, but no biggie. i do not mess with peoples’ money.
before executing a 1-click refund i happened to check my other emails. the importance of this piece in my puzzle cannot be overstated.
in my inbox was an email from my WordPress instance. it’s a common “are you OK with this backlink?” pingback request:
usually i spend < 10 seconds reviewing these. mostly they’re spam and occasionally some other blog links to me.
but a keyword stuck out: GROUP BUY.
i clicked through to Comulent Social and found a gold mine of stolen online courses being resold for a fraction of their stated price, including mine.
since the faux landing page for my course had copy/paste text from the real landing page, it backlinked my blog and triggered the alert.
could John Shredder be connected to this stolen course marketplace?
luck is when preparation meets opportunity
a couple months prior to this situation i read Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. before that i read Negotiation Genius and Getting to Yes.
let’s call these books the Unofficial Negotiation Trilogy, or UNT for short.
a few UNT lessons:
- information is power; don’t give away more than necessary
- get the other side (your adversary) to say “no” as quickly as possible, then negotiate from there
- your ZOPA (zone of possible agreement) is different from your adversary’s; find the overlap
- create asymmetry such that your BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement) is less painful than theirs
these in mind, my leverage was clear:
- i knew my course was stolen, thief did not know i knew
- i’m smarter than most people (yeah i said it)
so i sent “John Shredder” a note and simultaneously kicked off an investigation of Comulent Social.
playing stupid
not 100% certain (yet) that John was connected to the stolen course website, i actually clicked through PayPal’s refund process. lucky for me, PayPal said the funds were on hold for a day.
i kept John updated:
shortly after sending this, my investigation had a breakthrough: i conclusively linked my student John Shredder to Comulent Social.
before i share how that happened, here’s what i tried first:
- joining the private Discord chat channel and cross referencing usernames, signatures, recent moderator posts, etc
- using WHOIS records for clues behind domain ownership
- sending private FB Group messages from a borrowed female account (they confirmed course “was available”)
- scanned for security vulnerabilities in the Amember instance managing the website’s membership portal (grey area, sigh)
- consulted with other high ticket course creators to learn if they had heard of John Shredder or Comulent Social
but you know how i finally figured it out? i joined the scam membership website.
for just $19 you could join Comulent for 30 days, and then be billed a mere $9 per month afterward for unlimited access to courses.
it was during checkout, using my wife’s old email + maiden name, that i found the Achilles tendon:
PayPal is such a POS product that the “pay to” address is embedded directly into the callback URL.
that email address was the same one John Shredder used to enroll in my course.
another day passed, and poor John was getting anxious about his refund!
at this point my natural tendencies were urging me to take the “gotcha!” route. to type a well-deserved ALL CAPS spiel to John and have a celebratory latte.
but i did none of this, because i read the UNT (unofficial negotiation trilogy).
data gathering
just because i knew Jerry Howard, p/k/a John Shredder, stole my course and was reselling it on Comulent Social, didn’t mean i had anything to brag about.
course creators and ecommerce stores are ripped off all the time. it usually goes something like this:
- thief purchases item
- seller delivers item
- thief submits chargeback
- seller refutes claim, providing proof of delivery
- payment processor is Soy, decides in thief’s favor
i wanted to avoid this fate, so i played my cool with John Shredder and began a series of lighthearted Q&A.
me: “thanks John for the PayPal receipt, can you provide legal proof? i’ll submit it to the course website so they can ensure the refund goes through“
thief: “ehm like what kind of legal proof?“
me: “paypal says i have to wait another day, maybe because it’s Sunday. if you send me a driver license pic i’ll just refund now.“
thief: “Sounds good. Here you go.“
pause: let’s pour one out for Jerry Howard, a [previously] anonymous internet thief who literally sent me his drivers license.
me: “wow, i haven’t seen a UK license before. how is your name John Shredder though, if your license is Jerry Howard?”
thief: “ah yeah i used an old teachable account because of not wanting to give private information to businesses :)“
after this exchange i let him have it. i told Jerry i knew he ran the OnePercentClub + Comulent Social websites.
filing a PayPal claim
unsurprisingly, within a couple hours Jerry filed a chargeback request on PayPal.
before doing so he tried arguing with me further over email, but the correspondence is so Low IQ it’s not worth a screenshot.
fruitless quips like:
- “i’ll contact Teachable!” → i’m friends with the Teachable CEO
- “you have no proof!” → after i sent him the PayPal screenshot showcasing his pay-to email
so i prepared my game plan. i sent PayPal the following rebuttal:
losing my PayPal claim
for a few days i reflected on Tolle’s Power of Now. i tried to stay present and not be consumed by Mr Shredder. did i say the right things? there’s a character limit too, you know.
i played out the worst case scenario: i lose. i remembered that time in college when my Jeep was stolen and mom said “it’s only money.” (this meant a lot; my mom is frugal and did not come from money.)
and then i thought about my blood pressure. usually a cool ~108/60, it was now approaching a mild boil. the violating feeling of being taken from tends to have that effect.
then i got the news. PayPal was deciding in the thief’s favor.
Ryan – 0
Jerry – 1
having already simulated this scenario in my head, i was ready to let it go. i’m blessed to have multiple income streams, health, and the skills to make more money from honest marketers.
plus, i had no regrets concerning my evidence submission. nothing i wish i could have changed if given a second chance.
fast forward a few days.
already at terms with the loss i sat in Busan, Korea at a buffet by the ocean. i thought: what if i try one more time?
you see, entrepreneurs aren’t just people who keep trying. they are the ones who keep trying until it works.
becoming a ninja
this section is titled ironically; an obituary to the “Ninja OnePercentClub” membership component of Comulent Social.
while i was OK with the outcome thus far — a $2,100 course sale, reversed, and the prospect of my content being resold to losers — what didn’t sit right was something i mentioned earlier:
i’m smart.
call it arrogance but i didn’t enjoy admitting i lost to someone dumber than me. i mean, the guy sent me his drivers license.
so i appealed the PayPal claim, an option available to me for just a few days following the initial claim’s decision.
filing a PayPal claim, redux
here are the skills i brought to the table for Round II that did not make the cut in my first attempt:
- coding
- email screenshots
first, i scraped the entire Comulent Social website and produced a database of 1,849 stolen courses. i put these in a Google Sheet.
next, i recreated screenshots inside Teachable with Jerry’s real name, because John Shredder (unintelligently) signed up again:
my theory is the PayPal team failed to use their brains and connect “John Shredder” with “Jerry Howard,” so i rewrote my message too.
at the bottom i challenged PayPal to their own game, requesting they tell me exactly how one can provide proof of delivery for digital products.
fingers crossed, i hit Submit.
winning
according to my wife i’m a “sore winner.”
i think what she means is competing against me is a bad idea. at least that’s what i shout across the table every time i crush her in Bananagrams.
after scoring $2,100 i kicked off a litany of projects:
- filed a DMCA takedown notice on Namecheap, the domain registrar for Comulent Social
- spoke with Amember management about shutting down his account
- launched a public shaming campaign (covered next)
Ryan – 1
Jerry – 0
leveraging the wisdom of the crowd
my shiny Google Sheet of stolen courses was useless without contact info for each of the creators.
i thought about spending some of my hard-earned blood money on an outsourcer to build an email list, but this sounds like work, and girls just wanna have fun.
so i did what i always do: i tweeted.
this got some eyeballs to the sheet. about 5,000 to be precise.
if you’re wondering how to set up Google Analytics on a spreadsheet, cue another Tweet from last summer. man this tweet aged well.
but i didn’t stop there.
i submitted the Comulent Social course directory to Hacker News, reddit, and various Facebook groups for online course creators.
(yes, i made a fake Facebook profile to do this)
within a couple days dozens of course creators sent me their own stories, tips, and thanks for preparing the resource.
ego aside, by writing their own Harshly Worded Emails, many creators successfully got their own content taken down from the illegal marketplace.
spiteful in my spare time
since Jerry is a UK citizen, someone suggested i file a lawsuit in small claims court to ruin his personal and credit bureau reputation.
the government’s online portal requires address verification, so i used Google Maps to check out Jerry’s home. i then reached out to the closest high school to see if they’d share student records.
in case you think i did something shady, here’s the exact message i sent the school:
“Dear {{ name redacted }}, I am considering a Mr. Jerry Howard for one of our programs and I want to confirm he was a former student who graduated in 2002. His current residence is 3 Lodge Gardens, Hessle. Let me know if I should provide any further information.”
— Ryan Kulp, Lead Instructor, GrowthX Academy
i did not impersonate anyone, and the statement is 100% truthful. but it is surprising how easy it was to request a stranger’s information.
disappointed by this response, i decided i needed more help to ensure my data (from the drivers license) was correct. i needed to be sure Jerry would be served the appropriate legal papers to appear in court.
i hired a “lawyer.”
getting scammed again
long story short i engaged Abdul Akram, a “Barrister” at Akram & Associates Legal Attorneys. he was recommended on some lawyer marketplace.
Abdul was happy to help, exchanging several messages back and forth and then quoting me just $40 USD to file the claim.
he reviewed my materials, asked good questions, i paid him, then…. nothing.
i was conned while attempting to sue another con artist. classic.
Ryan – 1
Jerry – 0
Abdul – 1
winning twice
while i still had $2,060 left over from my first win, it didn’t sit right to be scammed again.
so i filed my own chargeback request via payment gateway Payoneer, and after 10 days of back and forth evidence collection i won. again.
Ryan – 2
Jerry – 0
Abdul – 0
who wants some?
a few lessons for aspiring online con artists:
- only steal from people dumber than you
- don’t compete against someone with unlimited resources
with the $40 small claims money back in my pocket, i started digging around for opportunities to prevent Jerry from ever being hired:
a microsite with his drivers license, contact information, and this blog post would be a fun weekend project, and a good use of my SEO skills.
for now i’ve simply titled these image files and alt text values to pilot a page 1 rank attempt. we’ll see.
forgiveness
we all make mistakes. con artist Jerry Howard made a big one.
if he apologies and asks for forgiveness, i’ll give it to him.
the $2,100 is mine though. i earned it.
Hi Ryan,
What shocked me most in your article is that you don’t capitalize the first character of your sentences.
just kidding, glad that you managed to convince paypal and that they eventually did the right thing in your favor.
good continuation
Uh… hello…** Morty‘s voice** I’m I the only one that gets this? Or am I just the dumb one responding ? …. uhhhh, …. thank you . I guess I’ll also be vauge 1) great word count of high algorithm search 2) ;) now I know 3) and safe with pay pal – …. maybe I’m not supposed to say that outplays.
You are fucking savage…. And I love it
This is what a finger snap looks like as a blog…
“Finish him!!” – Mortal Kombat
What in unholy internet domination!!!!! You’re an absolute monster – and a man after my own heart. That asshole asked for it.
Sod off ,bugger !!!
Maybe it’s because you’re smarter than me, but I can’t seem to figure out why you would assume that this guy wouldn’t have sent you a fake or stolen identification. In which case you’re trying to ruin the job prospects of an unwitting stranger.
i’m confident it’s him, as the PayPal account is “business verified” which requires some proof of identity. if new information were presented to me that proves otherwise, obviously i’d adjust this piece.
“if new information were presented to me that proves otherwise, obviously i’d adjust this piece.”
Go Go Internets Go: https://binged.it/2J2RnD5
Yeah, might find a slight issue with that house image…. Lovely british confusing streets. Can’t even find where number 12 is on my own damn road, so I don’t blame you. Tip for the yanks: Bing maps gives house numbers/names when right clicking on them. And 3 Lodge Gardens isn’t visible on Google Maps. And scammers gonna scam, so don’t expect the “right” house to be their actual house either.
Also, well done on the paypal claim, most surprising thing I’ve seen all year.
But you don’t win til you realise your scammer is a doctor at the most prestigious hospital in the country. I still trump yall on that.
It’s actually pretty easy to get a fake verified business account on Paypal.
Scums do not deserve sympathy.
Honestly, yeah, this just sounds like one Power Marketing dick feeding on another. I can’t be bothered to care what one arrested-adolescent John Galt type with an empathy disorder does to another.
Your posting of your comment belies the content of your comment.
I’m glad you managed to scam him, after all you are a scammer and con man so you should be able to catch these things.
Congrats dude, you have a wife who puts up with you. She’s a keeper. You seem like a dick.
thanks Jeff!
seem like a fat dick
my course worth
really
anyone can
copy that garbage
he went to Trudeau
remember him
cancer cure
cutesy pie
I.assume this was a caricature
of some wank
then I notice
it him
mister Van’s
3000
it’s no joke he for real,
a real
bulk sausage.
dude payed an realize this not worth 2 dollar.
I reckon the driving license pic is a fake. The signature looks like a handwriting font with three identical ‘r’s, and the angle on ‘HOWARD’ looks a bit off to me. I may be wrong though.
Christ, what an asshole.
Stories like this make me so happy knowing that these kind of scammers are at times catchable and pay a price. GOOD JOB.
Good for you, dude. And though you clearly could have done worse things to him, congrats for taking the (mostly) high road.
smart huh?
smart enough that your dumb ass got scammed twice.
A very entertaining read, thanks. That Google-map-street-view thing, though… A while back someone tried to scam me on eBay, sending me fake “You’ve just been paid!” emails from “paypal” for an expensive item I was selling, and it was … well, a weird feeling, being able to actually look at the house my scammer lived at. Not like I was going to send some heavies there, but it was peculiar being able to see the place they lived. Grrr.
Funny old world we’re living in at the moment eh
I reckon the Driver Licence is a fake. The address is formatted wrongly. Look at samples at https://www.ereg-association.eu/news-items/new-design-of-the-uk-photocard-driving-licence/
and the address should be formatted as
3 LODGE GARDENS
HESSLE
HU13 0GA
It seems to me that his mistake was asking for the refund. If he hadn’t done that you may never have discovered the theft and reselling of your courses. Well done, Sir!
“while i was OK with the outcome thus far — a $2,100 course sale, reversed, and the prospect of my content being resold to losers”
So what makes some poor schmuck who stumbles upon the fake sale site using a random Google search a “loser?” Is that person supposed to magically know that the site is selling stolen courses? I bet if the same person handed YOU the $2,100 for your course, you wouldn’t call them a loser, as least not to their face…
if you can’t discern a stolen course ($19 sale price, pointing to a $2k price page) from the original, yes you are a loser. at best, intellectually lazy.
How can he get your forgivness, that part isn’t clear to me
I love a good prorevenge story, and I was licking my chops when I started reading this. But, man, your arrogance made me root for the scammer.
thanks Dylan!
*apologizes
Always nice to see a scammer taken out!
mu-mu-mu-multi-kill !!! Godlike !
this reference makes me happy
The links on your spreadsheet are still working.
Total savagery Came to this blog for interesting marketing strategies and ideas, left entertained
I don’t see why someone who pays $15 for a $2,100 course is a “loser”.
… because it’s stealing.
a non paid for domain would work and forever be hosted… something like jerryhoward.wordpress.org
The thief is now operating another course reselling forum, it’s called DeltaElites.net . There are various courses from creators such as Tai Lopez, Neil Patel, Kevin David, Franklin Hatchett, Dan Dasilva,etc..
This might be run buy a whole organization.
thanks for sharing! bummer.
Hi Ryan,
Thank you for writing this!
I have recently discovered that there are numerous websites trying to sell my course without my permission.
I have written emails and got some of them to remove it but there’s still at least 4 that haven’t responded to me.
Any advice on how to proceed?
Also, is there a Facebook Group with other course creators that have experienced this?
Warmly,
Juliette
hi Juliette, i’ll shoot you a couple tips via email.
Hello
AHAHA i love it like a movie i knew its not nice story however finished with happy end :)
Whats your best tips for this kind of people to stop ?
Many Thanks
AKIN
Ryan,
I got contact from him today.
He is still working on fraud in the other business.
Kazu
My man
“… but if you try to hurt me, then the lyrics go “lust for blood… lust for blood…”
I really enjoyed mentally living the experience while reading this.
Cheers,
Peri